unknown 0:06

Alright.

Chris Colley 0:07

Welcome back everyone to another episode of Shift Ed Podcast coming to you. I have um a really great guest, Scott Shepard here from Wild Ward Institute. We're gonna absolutely talk about outdoor education today. We're kind of in two areas that are very different. Scott is coming in from Santa Cruz, California, where he says he's in the middle of a heat wave. And today here on the east coast of North America, we are freezing our butts off. Uh and everything's dying. So welcome to the world there, Scott. Yeah, happy to be here. And Scott has tons of experience in outdoor education and conservation, outdoor learning. He's got a great podcast too called Hopeful by Nature, which I will put in the the the this podcast notes so you can go and check it out. Um and it's it goes beyond of just getting your kids outside, and we're gonna dive into kind of like the responsibility of us to get those kids outside more and more. We we obviously know that they're going outside, you know, the least amount in the world history of our lives of humans, and what kind of influence would that have on them as they grow up without any attachment to nature or very little stewardship about nature? Scott, I love starting these off with just kind of getting a little bit of your background. What were a few of the salient moments that happened in your you know journey so far that brought you to outdoor education and and and really finding a passion for it and speaking so um passionately towards kids getting outside and learning? Well, humans getting outside and learning, I should say.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Sure. Well, yeah, it's funny that you use the word salient because I started my journey in outdoor education while sailing. Um and I actually did that with a bunch of Canadians on board a tall ship called SV Concordia. It made birth out of Barbados, but was connected to a school in Alberta. I had a bunch of francophone classmates with me on board this ship, and we sailed nearly all the way around the world, visiting a plethora of different countries across three different continents. Um and I had lived most of my life on the beach in Southern California. I had grown up like riding my bike around with wet swim trunks jumping in and out of the ocean in the pool and picking fruit trees out of everybody's backyard. Um, and never really understanding the privilege that I had experienced over the course of my life, never really understanding like the value of that access that I had to like such incredible outdoor environments. Um and when I sailed on board the ship, I really had my bubble burst. I realized that my experience was incredibly unique and that I had an opportunity to use my privilege to open doors for others and inspire them to keep the door open as they came in. Um so I've spent the last 15 years trying to improve equitable and sustainable access to outdoor spaces and experiences with government agencies, schools, nonprofits, zoos and aquariums, a whole plethora of different types of organizations and remain incredibly passionate, particularly as like a dad of three young kids who I'm watching grow up in a really different generation and experiencing a a different connection with the natural world, a different connection with technology than I had as a child. Um, so that's a big part of you know what inspired me to do this work.

Chris Colley 3:58

It's amazing. And I like how you say it's the privileges we had as young kids growing up, and like going outside was just like of course, like I'm not staying in the house and doing nothing. Like outside seemed like way more exciting, and everybody was there and there were tons of things you could do. But I never really saw it from my kids' perspective or our kids' perspectives, that it is a privilege to be able to do that because things have gotten so restrictive in getting those kids out, you know, stranger danger, less green spaces, you know, we just seem more protective, like, oh, you're gonna go outside where and who's watching you? And uh it it kind of has changed a little bit. And I guess my first question is through your podcast, uh what were the stories that you were looking for? What were the conversations that you wanted to hear with the people that you were inviting onto uh the show with that idea of privileges, you know, like we had all these great experiences. How do we start bringing those stories to the modern generations, you know, our younger generation, so that they have more of a an idea of what it could be like, it could be different.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Yeah, well, the podcast is called Hopeful by Nature, and the goal is to inspire hope. Um, particularly because we're all living through this global change environmentally, economically, socially, politically. In my nation, we're having a pretty crazy time where there's a lot of crazy leadership happening and um a lot of misinformation, a lot of people that are confused around how to find accurate information. Um, and that can leave you feeling pretty despondent, it can leave you feeling pretty hopeless. Um, but I know as an educator that there are other people all over the world that are doing incredibly great work. And I wanted to really shine a spotlight on the good news of people connecting kids and communities to the natural world and inspiring collective conservation action because it's happening everywhere you look. It's just underneath the surface. Some of the folks that I've had the privilege of inviting on are like young National Geographic Explorers from Africa, adventure educators from India, um, you know, conservationists from the east coast of the United States, um, environmental advocates here in California that are passing new legislation to get kids outside during the school day, um, to get kids recognized for studying climate. Um and I think I also really wanted to recognize that like me as a privileged person, if I'm only inviting people on that look like me and share my identities or share my lived experiences, then I'm not really doing a good job of showcasing the diverse work and the diverse communities that are all around the world inspiring hope. Um, so I try to be thoughtful about how I can ensure that I'm inviting people that you know really represent the wider diversity of our planet and the wider diversity of values that we see for getting kids in communities outside. For some people, it's recreation and play. For other people, it's economic opportunity. For other people, it's physical and mental health, you know. So it it runs a wide array of reasons for getting kids outside, but we all share that same value of inspiring hope and inspiring connection to the natural world.

unknown 7:41

Yeah, I love that.

Chris Colley 7:42

The word hope can sometimes feel a bit abstract, right? And particularly in education. Yeah. What does hope actually look like when you're working with kids and communities and you know, the natural world? Can you put a bit of context behind that? How you are do how you take that word hope and and use it within, you know, your podcast and the work that you do?

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Yeah, well, I just had a guest come on named Karen Cow, who's the founding CEO of an organization called Ten Strands out here in California that worked really hard to push forward some legislation to improve equitable access to the outdoors. And she said on my podcast that hope is a verb with its sleeves rolled up. And I'd say, like, really, it's it's action. Hope is um it's going out and and inspiring the change that you want to see in the world around you. Uh and it's contagious when when we're out taking action on behalf of our values and on behalf of the people and environments that we care about, we inspire others to do the same. Um I've seen it manifest in a variety of different ways. And like I said, it's it's manifested in passing new pieces of legislation. It's manifested in the number of kids that are able to get outdoors. Like I spoke with Jackie Osfeld, who's the director of the Outdoors for All Initiative with the Sierra Club, and they're working really hard to get one million kids outdoors over the course of this year, and they've already exceeded over 500,000. Um so uh another big aspect of it is collective action because right now, like I can I can sit in my living room and close my eyes real tight and clench my fists and be super hopeful about the future. But if I'm not going out and engaging with the community and taking action on behalf of those values that I care about, then I'm not actually inspiring any change. Um, so I I've seen it uh I've seen it manifest through conversations with Australian water resource managers who are teaching their communities how to throw block parties, teaching their communities how to welcome new neighbors to their to their neighborhood and how to how to come together as a group before asking them to act on behalf of the environment or before asking them to engage in conservation, really building those relationship first type of communities. And to your point, like when I was a kid, it sounds like when you were a kid, we spent time outside all the time. There was lots to do outside, there were lots of people outside, there were lots of places to go, and that's not really the case anymore. When kids go outside, they're they're not really able to find their peers because their peers are involved in sports and music and language and all these other types of extracurriculars that parents are like constantly overprogramming their kids to do in in service of a positive goal, like opportunity and growth and intelligence and strength. Um, but in reality, like our built environments have changed significantly to a point where you know there aren't places to go outside, there aren't people in those places, and there aren't things to do in those places necessarily. So wherever where all the kids are, is they're all on their screen. So why wouldn't they come together to engage socially there? I think like part of what I'm hoping to do through through my work with Wildwood Institute is to inspire that kind of change to bring back the type of built environment, opportunity, community engagement that's needed to really make the outdoors the place to be like it used to be.

Chris Colley 11:18

Yeah, I love this quote that you well, it's a phrase cultivating independence through nature. Like you're you're hitting on it right there, right? You're you're alluding to this. How how do you do this in a practical way? Like, I know that we have to roll up our sleeves. I love that idea that it takes effort to change the way our mindsets have kind of evolved into what are some ways that you're seeing practically where we're starting to cultivate this independence through nature more so than you know than how we have been doing, you know, recently?

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Um, well, when I see it happening, it's it's happening because of bravery, you know, and it's happening because uh people are choosing to not be fearful of maybe the messages that they're receiving or the biases that they've internalized. Um like with my my own kids, I'm cultivating independence through nature when I tell my kid to go outside and play by themselves. You know, when I when I give my kid permission to go ride his bike around the neighborhood after school, that's cultivating independence in him. Uh and I see a lot of parents and a lot of parents choosing to do the same. Um, when it comes to like education spaces, it needs to be more intentional. Um a lot of educators uh see like outdoor learning as a recess free-for-all. And while it may be focused on play to some degree or another, it's certainly not a free-for-all, nor should it be a free-for-all. We should be really scaffolding the types of experiences that young people are having in the outdoors by providing them with choices and providing them the opportunity to share their thoughts and opinions. And sometimes that, you know, includes using technology in that work. Like I've seen people cultivate independence in young people by equipping them with tools like iNaturalist or equipping them with tools like Apple Watches to track their steps, to track their location, to be able to communicate with one another. Um, but like that act of cultivating in uh independence through time spent outside, you know, really requires intentionality and it requires bravery and um on behalf of the child and on behalf of the adult. Like we have to be willing to take on positive risks and allow our children to make mistakes. And sometimes that results in, you know, hurting yourself here or there, physically, mentally, or emotionally. But that's part of being a human, learning how to be tolerant of that uncertainty and adversity, and that cultivates independence as well. So I hope that answers your question.

Chris Colley 14:11

Yeah, totally, totally. And and it is very much like you have to experience it and live it to learn from it, you know, and develop yourself. It can't be something you're taught. Like, I'm gonna teach you how to love nature. We don't need to go outside. Well, I'll just we'll do a few worksheets and we'll be all done. Like, yeah, there's that need for action to happen outside. Um, and oftentimes, and I'm sure you've heard this too from from educators, teachers, like they have this understanding that they have this curriculum to cover, they've got a lot of kids in front of them. Um they there's a reluctance a little bit around am I just is it just another recess? You know, similar to what you said, a free-for-all, where it's just wild west outside in the schoolyard and there's no, like you said, intent behind it. How do you deal with that with teachers when you're working with them on kind of like easing that that thought process that they're having, that it's not an extra, it's a part of the whole like how do you approach teachers that are kind of skeptical, sorry, about the effects of taking kids outside and and and using it as kind of a classroom?

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Well, it reminds me of a quote from Mr. Rogers, which was uh play is the real work of childhood. And a lot of the time children are missing out on the opportunity to engage in independent play, like physically and the outdoors. Um, so when we're taking kids outside, we're providing them the opportunity to engage with nature in a way that is individualized and is it's it's like true student-centered learning by taking a child outside and allowing them to choose how to engage with nature. Like so many educators across the whole globe are thinking critically about like, how can I be more of a guide on the side and less of a sage on the stage? How can I focus on student-centered learning opportunities? And one of the best ways to do that is to take kids outside and allow them to choose what it is that they want to do. And if you look at research, you know, revisiting the same environment over and over again allows students the opportunity to uh to develop new ideas and to experiment with those ideas to engage in scientific reasoning and scientific processing. Um, and that's that's real learning taking place. Amy Reyes Hoff, who's the director of outdoor learning for the Wyoming Department of Education, came on my podcast and said that outdoor learning is not a recess free-for-all. It's a methodology of an instruction to teach the same content in a more impactful environment. And that's the message that I would really say to teachers out there. It's like when you remove the four walls, our body attunes naturally with the sounds of nature, with the sensations of nature that are happening around us. I mean, we as human beings are nature. And, you know, cultivating that attunement improves things like executive functioning. It improves things like focus, improves things like stamina. Um, and it incorporates intrinsic motivation to engage in the learning that they're trying to do. Like, who doesn't want that for their students, you know? So that that's really the message that I would say to teachers that are pushing back. But a lot of the time, Chris, it has to do with their own sentiment of safety in the outdoors. We're we're more than one generation in to folks that have lacked access to nature because of things like the built environment, because of things like socioeconomic circumstances, and because of things like cultural taboos around spending time outdoors in nature, or because of the historic impacts of people being outside in unsafe places. Um, so like we we also need to be cultivating opportunities for educators to develop confidence in the outdoors and to develop the physical and emotional safety that they need as a foundation to be able to engage with nature.

Chris Colley 18:23

Totally, totally. So that's a totally well said, uh Scott, very well said. I guess too, like if we go up the chain, you know, in education. I was recently at a conference one, it was a leadership conference on getting, you know, on outdoor learning. And we were talking about administrators' role in all this as well, like, because there was some thoughts from teachers that they shared with us that you know, if the principal looks outside and we're outside with my group and we're at look like we're having fun, and other classes look out, and then they go talk like why are they allowed to go out? And like these kind of like, how do you manage? Like, do you work with administrators where you kind of look at leading a school into outdoor learning?

SPEAKER_00 19:10

I have. I was a founding faculty member at a school in Southern California where I started my own outdoor education program. And in the first year, I thought, like, man, we're gonna be surfing, we're gonna be climbing, we're gonna be camping, we're gonna be doing all this crazy adventure stuff. And slowly I realized that, in fact, we needed to be focusing on developing the foundational skills to support people to be able to engage in those activities in the future. Um, so I started teaching kids how to ride bikes at school. I started teaching kids how to swim at school, I started teaching kids how to improve their observational skills, how to improve their curiosity and cultivate curiosity in the outdoors, to develop their vocabulary for engaging in the outdoors. And uh, the proof was in the pudding, you know, like students were not only more motivated to engage in learning because we were spending time outside, but they had better skills to engage in learning when they were inside the classroom. They had better vocabulary, they had better executive functioning, they had better focus, they had better, you know, physical and emotional awareness of their own bodies and minds and arts. Um, and it's backed by research. Like I conducted a study um back in 2022 in collaboration with Cal Poly Humboldt University, where we evaluated students on the impact of a field trip to California State Parks. And I really expected kids to say that it had a significant impact on their environmental awareness and attitudes, and it didn't. Students were coming in with a really high level of environmental awareness, really high level of environmental attitude because of the input that they were receiving from media and society. What changed was their school motivations. 60% of students said that they were significantly more likely to work harder in school and pay more attention in class because of their participation in a field trip. And in addition to that, there were these huge disparities in self-efficacy, which is your belief in your own ability to achieve something between students of color and white students, and between low socioeconomic students and high socioeconomic students. That gap disappeared after a field trip. So that showed that for students that were experiencing low self-efficacy, a remedy to that was to go on a field trip into the outdoors to spend time in nature. So that's really what I would say to administrators out there or administrators that I work with is like look at the data, you know, pilot something new, start with what you have access to already, start small, and continue to evaluate the impact of that work on your students. You're definitely going to see a change in the way that kids are showing up, the way that kids are participating, and the way that kids are learning.

Chris Colley 21:52

Amazing. Well, Scott, this has been really fascinating. I I thank you for your time and your your thoughts into this. Um, I love the magic of nature. Like I've read so many of those researches too, and it like it's almost like you're cr you're a bit nuts if you don't go outside with these kids. Like, yeah, it just helps them. It helps them, it helps them develop, it helps them, you know, connect to something bigger. And just you know, attitude like behaviors within the classroom are transformed when you take those kids outside. So the research is there, and again, it's it's uh the bravery, as you alluded to, um, of doing it. Um, and you know, I love your your advice to admin, start small, start local, um, and you take your small steps, but do it as a group. Uh you can't have one person. That was another thing that came out. If it's one person doing it in the school, it's just, you know, you gotta grow that culture within the school. Fascinating, Scott. We can talk and talk and talk. I want to respect our time. Um, we'll continue this. We'll have to do a part two eventually as we this school year. Thanks so much for your time, and this is really fun.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah, likewise, Chris. Thank you so much for your time. I hope you have the opportunity to spend some time outside today. Oh, I will. Thanks so much.

unknown 23:18

Cool.