Chris Colley 0:07

Hey, welcome back, everyone. Here we are, another episode of Shift Ed Podcast coming to today. I have a uh returning guest, Dan Fitzpatrick, coming in, the AI educator. And I invited Dan today because he just recently put on this amazing um online conference around AI called the world's largest free online AI conference for educators. And it was two days, 16 sessions, 30 plus speakers, and this happened over September 8th and 9th. Um, Dan just launched to this new great collaborative book called The Educators AI Guide 2027. That was a collaborative work, then that book was a bunch of teachers, each teacher kind of got a chapter, and then they did they have a like how did you organize kind of like the focus of each of the chapters? Like that seems like quite the endeavor.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Yeah, yeah. And Chris, great to see you again, and thanks for having me back on. I really appreciate it. The yeah, the it's something we've done properly. I think it's probably the second year now we've done it properly. We kind of started a year before that, kind of finding our feet with it. But every yeah, every September, kind of trying to catch that in-between stage between a lot of schools in the United States go back early August now, and so trying to get a yeah, trying to get a time where it is the back to school period for the Western world is quite difficult in and of itself. But uh we yeah, so we we tend to go that for that first or second week in September, and we we try to do two things. We we do a back to school AI summit, um, and we release a book around the same time for the year ahead. And and the aim of that those initiatives is it's it's kind of not necessarily me, um, because I I I do write books where I I'm the main author, but these ones are more about how do we get the innovation that's happening in little pockets in classrooms around the world, how do we put them on a stage so that other educators can can get a glimpse of what might be happening. And and you know, you I mean you said the book is is is called it has 2027 in it, and we're we're we're barely halfway through 2026. And and I've had a few sarcastic comments from people who are like, like, how do you know what's gonna happen in 2027? Well, it well, I suppose that's not the aim of it. It's not to say, right, this is what 2027 is gonna be like, it's more this is the innovation that's been happening in 2026, and the the rest of education, the 95% of it, will probably be at that level for the next year ahead. So this is if you follow the book, I guess, if you kind of cheap plug there for the for the book, but like if you if you look at what some of these educators are learning by kind of going on ahead of us and experimenting and doing their own little pockets of research in their classrooms, then this is what you could do through to the end of 2027, essentially. So yeah, and we we try and mix that to we get some of those educators into the summit to to share, we we try to get some bigger names um to keynote as well and draw people in and make it an enjoyable experience. Um, and yeah, yeah, like you say, it's online. So and you can people can go re-watch it. So if they go over to my YouTube channel, they can they can watch the full eight hours worth if they want to.

Chris Colley 3:36

Absolutely. I'll definitely put that in the descriptor and on the blog post so that people can go and have a look. Look, there's two days of amazing videos, lots of people like talking about their experiences, like you said, Dan. Um, I mean, overwhelming. Like you, like you said, you had so many amazing guests there, and some like really big thinkers. Um, what do you think the strongest point of agreement was across those two days that kept kind of coming up um around the the conversations of AI in education?

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Yeah, that's it's a great question. And I wrote, I kind of I suppose I'm I'm tempted to pick up the book because I I wrote the introduction. So, like I said, it's not it's not my voice, but I I did do an introduction to it and and then afterwards. Um, but in the introduction, I I wrote about um let me see what I called it. I kind of called it the the five issues underpinning this book, and they're kind of like the the five trends that I think we're seeing uh with within AI in education. And it's it's really difficult, difficult to pitch AI in education. I'm not sure how you feel, Chris, but I kind of feel like the people some people are moving on and are really advanced. So if I go in and let's say do a do a keynote for a school, I I kind of find that 80% of the teachers now of of are kind of dabbling or having a daily conversation with an AI to get it to get it to do some to some things for them. Probably about 10% then are kind of probably doing some of the stuff I I'm doing myself, like more of the the really agentic advanced stuff. Then you've still got 10% who are kind of like I don't really know fully what this is yet. Still, and so it's it it's such a it's such a wide disparity there to say, well, this is this is where AI in education is going because it's I think it's all over the place.

Chris Colley 5:31

But totally all over the place. I refer to it as the wild west of AI.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yeah, it just seems like yeah, it's so it's so true. Yeah, and yeah, and I think to be a leader in education at the minute and to be trying to herd your people around what this AI and AI thing is, is is such a difficult job. And it and it's almost like yeah, I've got that image of of a farmer trying to herd herd their their sheep, like that the sheep are getting far more and more spread out from each other, yeah. Totally and it and trying to understand what some of the ones who are further ahead are doing is getting more and more difficult because of how advanced this is. But I'll I'll give you kind of a quick overview of those five issues, which I think came through in the conference as well. So I think the first one is the chatbot era is already becoming older news, and I think first three of first three or four years, you jump into a chatbot, you talk to it like you're using in like you're using WhatsApp or Facebook messenger, and you get basic responses. I think what we're starting to see now is people who are using these tools regularly, and and not even on purpose, I think it's just the tools are naturally pulling them in this direction because of how they're being designed now, are kind of AI tools that aren't just having a back and forth conversation with you, but are taking what you're saying and going off and doing full projects and tasks for you. So I think that kind of chatbot bit, I don't think that's necessarily going to disappear, but I think it's the surface level of of what people are given with these tools. Number two, I think we're gonna have to talk seriously about about what thinking is. And I and I think those of us, and I we probably talked about this last time I was I was on the podcast. We we've we've kind of seen this coming for a while because the the implications are obvious. If if you've got this thing that essentially is the whole world's information and synthesizes it and can do so much for you, then what is the relationship there between what I'm doing what I'm thinking about and what the computer's thinking about? And I and we're starting to see that really in a in quite a drastic way, and and in a way that is is harming learning as well as I think as well, helping learning as well. I don't think it's it I think it's very complex in that nature, is that is that we we really have to be purposeful and intentful on how how we're allowing this into the classroom and who's doing the thinking. And I think that's the key thing, like who is doing the thinking here, and and we know that whoever's doing the thinking is doing the learning. And so how do we keep to keep our students in that seat, I guess?

Chris Colley 8:07

Yeah, I love that question too of thinking with AI and not depending on it to do the thinking, like in because it can be easily done, right? Like you just say, okay, I'll just jam it in the bot, and you know, but yeah, how do we keep thinking alive with this dawn of AI and who knows what's to come? But the only thing that we really still maintain is that in humanity is that thinking processes that we go through, as opposed to kind of predicting like the machine does, you know, based on whatever info it was fed.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

I think you're so right there. I think and you kind of hit the nail on the head that and you know a lot of people talk about AI as this jagged edge, it's not just one frontier that's that's progressing across society. Like we we still have AI that is literally solving maths problems that have never been solved before, and and and discovering new new medical breakthroughs, but then doesn't know how many R's are in the word strawberry. Like that's that's how crazy this technology is and how how uneven it is. And and I think that's the same in the classroom. It can there are this there there are there's evidence. We're talking about actual research and evidence here. That this I mean, just look at the latest PISA report that was published from UNESCO, I think UNESCO or OECD. I always get those two mixed up, but the the I think it's OECD. The some of their researchers finding that it in some circumstances it it's helping learning, in others it's it's really detrimental to learning, and so therefore we can't just be like, oh, this AI thing, let's let's get it in our schools. We've this has got to be done with such acute awareness and purpose. Yeah, number three number three, number three assessment has reached a point where change is unavoidable, and I think that that that kind of links with the previous one, really. So if if how we're thinking with these machines is changing, how do we assess that thing? Then I think they're gonna have to and and again, those of us who have been, and the chances are if you're listening to this podcast, you've probably been thinking about this stuff for a while now. This isn't this isn't new, this is just things that I think is kind of hit the mainstream of education uh or will do in the coming year. Number four, AI governance is about is to be is about to become much more serious. I think we've kind of had that those trial periods where we've where we said, right, oh let's subscribe to Magic School, let's subscribe to this tool, let's let's get the the Google package that has the AI and Google Classroom and just see what happens. I think now we've really got to be thinking, um, and again it links with the the previous ones, how are we protecting the the academic side, but also how we're protecting the safety? And in the UK over here, we've just had the government have just updated their keeping children safe in education policies, which addresses a lot of this. I know in the the US, because of a lack or a supposed lack of government oversight, Microsoft and the AFT, the biggest teachers union, have just jointly come out in the last week with a shared it's kind of like a standard that Microsoft now have to hold themselves to, and it's quite strict. It's very it it they should be applauded for it. And I think it's gonna have a knock-on effect to other companies where they're gonna have to either abide by those same policies and those same standards or come up with their own in a so in partnership with the unions. And I think we're and I'm sure in the Canada as well, the there there are similar conversations and policies being written, and and I think we this we're we're so we're realizing this technology is not just ed tech, it's it's actually got a lot more teeth teeth to it, and and we need to protect ourselves and our kids from it. And number five, just to finish this stream of thought, yeah, teachers are about to become software builders, which I think is is probably the most exciting bit of this, which is which is we can I mean I I'm I'm doing it all the time. I'm in clawed code, like just spinning up different apps, and and I and I kind of how I compare it to is and and it's it's not it's not the greatest comparison to be honest, because it's it's quite a negative thing, but you know how we over the last 10 years or so we've kind of got in into this kind of throwaway clothes culture. So as people go to I don't know what you have it where you are, but we have um here in the UK we have a shop called Primark. Uh I'm not sure if it's reached over to North.

Chris Colley 13:02

Like we call it thrifting, you know, where you're recycling clothing.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

This is this is as I I suppose the opposite of thrifting. This is like this is where you can just buy clothes really cheap. And so, and they're made probably in some someplace in China at the at the cost of pennies and and we it's kind of like a throwaway clothes culture. And I think th the comeback of thrifting is like the antidote to this, yeah. But I always feel like we're getting to that stage with software now where you know what I can a teacher can just spin up an app for that one specific class in for that one day and then never and then not return to it ever again, and and because it just fulfills a purpose for that task in that in that lesson. Um and I think we that's quite exciting because we can be very bespoke with the the technology we're using and it can fulfill a very acute purpose in that moment in time and and help with students. And so I yeah, I think it's a teacher. I think in the conference we called it teacher builders, uh it's this is enabling our teachers to be builders. Um yeah, yeah, I think just a few threads to pawn, I think, over the coming months.

Chris Colley 14:16

Totally, totally. Yeah, and I I really think that I love that idea of number five where you can be creators of, you know, you have a need, and then you know, you explain that to whatever you know platform that you're working on, and it really can help support expediating things that normally would have taken a long time. So there is super big value to it, but again, all the security concerns always seem to like in my case, when I'm creating tools, it's like that is always kind of the barrier that I hit all the time is well, is it secure? Are you falling? And it's kind of like we said before, it's like these policies are all over the place, and like what you can and can't do, it depends on the time of the day, or you know, if it's raining outside, it seems so random at times, but that advancement I think is something that we really need to start being more aware of anyway. And you guys did touch on that a lot um during the conference of like enabling and finding the good parts. Now, I know recently in the media it's been kind of like heavy with AI and um it kind of seems to like be pulling people back a little bit and like you know, instead of just letting a rip like whoa, pump the brakes a bit. And we are starting to see governments starting to say, yeah, yeah, let them just self-govern, let the company self-govern, which seems a bit, you know, we're just kind of like opening the doors, and we've already started to see how AI can be used, how it can like kind of just do stuff on its own, you know, and decide and make choices and break laws without any prompting. So I guess it's kind of like this is getting to be a heavy thing. What do you think schools need to do to kind of start rethinking how AI I mean it it moves at such a rapid pace, it's hard to keep up. Um, our institutions are not um fickle, you know, they're not able to adapt quickly, right? Because it's a huge institution usually that runs it. But from what you heard from the conference and from people like you had Michael Hernandez on there talking about um, you know, how we need to kind of rethink school with this AI and also with the AI that we don't really understand yet, like that's coming like you know, quickly. Um what was what are you some of your reflections on on that? Like how schools need to kind of be a little bit more nimble when it comes to thinking about AI rather than just saying, yeah, we're not gonna deal with it.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Yeah, yeah, it's I think it's at the heart of it. Yeah, Mike Henanda's session was really good at the summer. And I think I always come back to, and I've kind of been I've been talking about this for about four years now, and I always come back, I always frame everything in in Fiji Gavinderajan. He's a he's a business strategist, and he he has an amazing model called the three box solution to innovation. And it's kind of the I I I've I think I've mentioned it in two or three books I've written now because I love it so much. And I and I think we've still got a lot to learn from this kind of innovation model, but in very simple ways, this model explains innovation in two different ways as linear innovation and non-linear innovation. Linear innovation is how do we do what we're already doing or what we've always done a bit better. Um, and then the the non-linear innovation is how do we create the future of what we're doing? And I think I think I think this is a perfect framing of of what you've just said as well, there, Chris. Is we schools can't move really, really fast, and neither, neither should they. We're dealing with the the lives and the safety and the the potential of of real human beings who are vulnerable and and we spend a lot of the day with. Like we we have to protect that, and we can't just throw the baby out with the bath water. That's not to say we shouldn't innovate, but we we're probably afforded a bit more time than maybe a business out there that's at the at the whims of the market. So we we uh we shouldn't run too fast, I think, but we should be looking at how do we, I think first and foremost, within the the linear innovation side, how do we do what we've always done? How do we protect that in a world of AI? So and I think for our number one priority should always be the safety of the kids in front of us. I think it doesn't matter if that's digital or it's physical or or mental or whatever it is, that's always the number one priority for any educator, I think. How do we safeguard these children? And then how do we how do we help it make what we're already doing a bit better? And I think we've done we've kind of done that bit, we've jumped to that second bit first. So we went, all right, and if you just look at the marketing for all these companies who are selling AI, how does it save us time? How does it make us more efficient? How do we so we've jumped to that? How does it help us do what we've always done a little bit better bit first? And then I suppose after over the last three years, as we've kind of come to the realization of what this AI thing is and the implications, we've now gone, oh, we should probably go back and make sure we're all safe with this as well, because it's it's got some really big risks, and and rightly so. And it's taken us a bit of a while to realise that. Some, like you perfectly said, some organizations have been more heavy-handed in that. Like you look at New York public schools, you look at uh Los Angeles Unified District, they've they've kind of come in with with moratoriums, barns for a year while while they look at this, and I think we'll see more of that. I think I read Chicago School District would have just voted to pretty much do the same. I think I think it'll be like a bit of a domino effect there, and we'll start to get more more places around the North America and especially over in Europe doing something similar. So the there's that side of it, but then also I think we we also need to be looking at like you said as well, and like Mike Canander said at the conference, how do we adapt education or even how do we rethink education in this in this new world that we seem to be entering or may have already entered? And I think, and that's not I think in in Vijay Govindaraj's model, he he's I think he says a really innovative company is doing 90% linear innovation and 10% non-linear. Um that's a really innovative company. So is a school that can't move as fast. Um, and I said that I think I kind of went through this in my book, Infinite Education. I said, even if we're just doing 1%, and even if that 1% is shared across a group of schools because of a lack of resource, a lack of time, whatever that might be, then at least we're doing something, at least we're at least there's somebody in the school, or as there's a certain moment within our school year where we go, you know what, how might this make us rethink something like assessment? Are we gonna have to go back to the drone board with what that looks like? And even little ex little mental exercises like, you know what, if we were if if assessment didn't exist and we were starting education from the ground up, right now, how would we design it? And and you know, really getting to the heart of where the where changes happen and yeah, so I th I do th I do think we need to be doing both, I think.

Chris Colley 22:00

I like that idea of a reset then. Like kind of like, you know, things have changed so much, yet we're still operating on this kind of old system, you know, that didn't have tons of the stuff that we have now. Like that rethink, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Yeah, and a lot of stuff is is I mean, I I really plug myself into I kind of see myself as being, I hate putting two different sides on the education debate, but you know, like that kind of traditional versus progressive. I always see myself on the more progressive, but that's not to say I'm I don't think there's a lot of value in attrition. I think there is. In fact, when I was when I was a leader in a in a sec in a high school, um I brought I or I helped to bring in a lot of traditional styles of of learning and and so on. Some of them, some of it I kind of wish I hadn't now I look back on it, but but I still think I mean we can't deny the progress that's happened in learning science over the last few years and and and the shift towards taking learning science more seriously, and things like cognitive load theory and retention and all of that kind of thing. I think they're they're so important. But I do think we have to come back to the question of but why are we doing it? Like, okay, we we now know how the human brain works and how how it's best to retain information, but I but that shouldn't stop us asking the questions, but is that the right information to be retaining? Is this the right type of curriculum to have in our school? Is this still a relevant curriculum? So I think we need to almost unite both there and and almost go into that non-linear innovation that trying to create the future, but still firmly founded in or grounded in, sorry, the the proof of the evidence, I suppose.

Chris Colley 23:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. Dan, my last question, and we'll just it's it's a it's a bigger question about your two days of the conference. I mean, many perspectives were shared. What's the one conversation about AI and education that you think we're not having enough of? Like based on those two days and what the presenters were talking about, what some of your your special guests like Sabo, I mean, I've had her on the cast, just an amazing thinker. What do we need to talk about more about in AI and education that we're with that we're just not talking enough about?

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Yeah, I'm such a tricky isn't it?

Chris Colley 24:40

The question is to keep me awake at night. You know, what do we need to be talking about? And I do think AI literacy is in there somewhere that we're just not talking about what it is, what it does, how do we stay safe? Like I can riff all day on tools and apps and you know the things I see as positive, but I don't see that transferring a lot of the time. It just kind of stays in my mind. But from the conversations that were going on, there's definitely a perspective you can glean from those two days of more of the conversations we have to start having in schools that we just aren't yet, or we're not there yet with it.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Yeah. I kind of, you know what? I'm gonna come back to probably because I think there were so many great practical sessions and sessions that actually would help teachers like literally five minutes after that session had ended. And they were amazing. And some of them aren't being talked about enough, I don't think, in terms of the practical applications. But I I'm naturally drawn, like you said, when Sabah came on for for I think she came on for 10 or 15 minutes, and and we had right at the end of the conference, we we had a great talk from Stefan about about AGI and what that might mean. And I'm kind of more drawn to them because I think I suppose as my I suppose my life's work, my career has always been about trying to think a few steps ahead in terms of what might be coming down the line and how we can prepare and and take advantage of it to get ahead, I guess. So I'm naturally drawn to those conversations where I think we aren't fully grasping what this technology is at the moment and what it what it will be in in the next few years. And I going back to that conversation with Saba, and I think me and myself and Saba do a lot of work where we work with educational leaders around this, but where we go, right, do you just asking the basic question, do you actually know what you can do with these tools? Like, do you know that um and then therefore what type of world we need to be preparing our our students for? Because I I think and it's almost a cliche, and it's it's really hard to try and break out of the cliche, you know. Like we've been saying for 10-15 years now, we're preparing our kids for jobs that don't exist yet. You know what? That's it's become such a cliche that it doesn't even really mean anything. It's like it doesn't like it doesn't, because how can you act upon that as a teacher? You can't, it's just like, okay, yeah, now I'm gonna go back to teaching math. Like, it just doesn't like make any sense or any have any practical application, really. Um but I and then now I'm about to repeat the cliche. Uh but I I but it I do think this we need to think actually, it's we the world is is gonna be very, very different. And that's not necessarily and I even think we should probably be thinking we're not even tea we're not even we shouldn't even be preparing our students for jobs that don't exist. We should be preparing them more for a mindset and more for a set of skills that means that even if even if they are doing a job that's been around for a few hundred years, that job is likely going to be different uh in many, many ways. Like if you're a doctor, for example, that job in the next 10 years is gonna be very different to the job that a doctor was doing 10 years ago because of artificial intelligence. So, how do you how do you get into a mindset where you can you can still do that job? You can still run with whatever technology is now available. And and I think that naturally more and more comes down to the well, what's the human value within that? What's the and I think for many years we've said to we've we've tried to make our the humans in our lives, whether that be the humans who are in our classrooms or the humans who work for us, if you're a school leader, we've tried to almost make them become machines in in for for virtuous reasons as well, because we wanted we want we want the the organization to run better, we want to be more prepared, so we focus on well, how did how do we become hugs in this machine and and attach ourselves to the computer more and more and more to the point where we're almost where the where we stop and the computer starts is is difficult to understand, it's difficult to realize, and all of the problems that come with that. But I think probably the what we need to be looking at is where is the human different um to a to a computer that can process information to a level that we can't even understand, and that's kind of where we're getting to now, with especially when you look at Stefan's talk from the conference about AGI.

Chris Colley 29:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

That that how do we ground ourselves more in and I think and then when I talk when I'm talking to students, I normally look at this from the lens of I give them a very simple analogy, and I look, I say, right, look at someone like Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift has an entourage, probably the greatest pop star entourage in the world, I imagine. She's probably got hundreds of people who all do specific jobs for her and for her brand and for her image, and and they'll go from a business manager all the way down to her to a stylist, to somebody who writes her social media posts. The thing with an entourage is they all have to be promoting the original voice of the artist, they all have to be, they've all got skills that the artist like doesn't have, of course, otherwise, why would you need the entourage? But they're all driving those skills towards the taste and the judgment and the creative endeavor of that single person, and I think that's kind of how we have to look at AI. They're gonna get so powerful, they are getting so powerful, but how do we how do we keep the taste and the judgment and the creative endeavor of the human at the center? And I think part of the answer of that is we have to go more into our own humanity. So I think maybe something we're not talking about, just to answer your question, is how how do we how do we create a curriculum that is focused on helping our students become more human, going more into their humanity and finding out what that is, but discovering who they are and what their tastes are and what their purposes are? And that's very different because I think sometimes our traditional school curriculums force our our kids to look out to okay, well, that's that block of content, and I need to learn it. Okay, that's that block of content. But actually, what does a curriculum look like where it forces a person into themselves to discover who they are and to discover how to express in a in a turbulent environment, how to keep expressing who they are and keep rediscovering who they are, and and I think that's really fascinating. And I think the those who succeed, I think, do that really well. And I don't think that's a new thing. I think just over history over the whole course of history, those who've been the the success stories have you you know, we we we talk about them, the inspirational people, like the people who have been non unapologetically themselves in the face of adversity. They've they've stood up and for truth. They've and uh like we know that we know that these are the types of qualities we admire in a human being, but we've kind of throughout history said, Oh, that's just those special people who books get written about, who movies get written about, who go in the history books, or whatever that might be. But I think more and more today we need we we we all need to become that, and I think to a certain extent, social media gets a bad rap, but social media's kind of helped. We tend to call them influencers, and and a lot there's a lot of negative baggage that can come with that type of person, I suppose. But those who do really well at that job, an influencer job, are people who are so unapologetically themselves, and you might not like that. I certainly don't like quite a few of them, but some of them I do like, and but that's okay. That's okay. And I think how do we how do we help without becoming necessarily a social media influencer, but how do we help our children and our ourselves become become people who who have who know what our tastes are and know how to pursue them creatively, and then also plug AI into that to to boost, to have to have that entourage, to, to, to amplify our humanity. I think that might be the greatest challenge going into the next few years. And I think those who will continue to succeed will will do that well, I think.

Chris Colley 33:58

Yeah, I love that and that's a great great reflection that you've had on Yeah, I mean I'm sure this is yeah, I could be completely wrong.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

I could be I could be way off the mark, and I'm quite I'd be quite happy to admit it if I was, but it just as someone who thinks about and works in this every day, it's just kind of the it's just what I'm picking up at the moment. Happy to be challenged on it. Um yeah, it's yeah.

Chris Colley 34:27

We have to like put put a line in the sand as to human, you know, robot technology, like like we have to maintain our humanity and how we approach things as humans and how we develop our skills as humans, you know, beyond all the other stuff that's available to us. I think that focus on, you know, and much more on, like you said, like skills. Like, who am I? What am I good at? Like what assets can I bring to pushing, you know, something forward. Um, and we like you mentioned, we do focus a lot on the external stuff a lot of the time, instead of like putting mirrors up and saying, Who are we? You know, I really like doing this, I have a knack for this, I you know, and then developing that and encouraging it. It's similar to what we do in early childhood education is let the kids go outside, make sure they're attached to somebody that they feel safe, and let them be. Like it's not any a hard equation, but oftentimes we kind of like we gotta intervene in all these things and make it better. And sometimes I think we need to go backwards a little bit just thinking wise, that that we're the humans, we're the controllers, not not the stuff.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Um exactly, yeah. I think so. And I yeah, I think this is gonna sound really sophisticated. I I used to teach philosophy, so I I I don't always just randomly come up with philosophy quotes, but I think it would I think uh Plato said the purpose of education was all about just bringing things out of the person rather than putting things into the person. And I feel like we could learn, we could 3,000 years later, we could still learn a lot from that, I think.

Chris Colley 36:09

Totally, totally. Well, Dan, we'll leave it at that. I so appreciate your insights and thanks so much for doing this conference. I think that it allows people to engage like this and think beyond, you know, let they carry all that with them as they move forward in their jobs, their lives. Um, I'll put the definitely put the two YouTube videos so you guys, listeners, can check it out. There's some great, great insights and conversations and amazing tools that were introduced. And please check Dan's book out, The Educators AI Guide 2027. Dan, it's always a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Chris, I just thanks for all the work you do as well. I think the the I I used to do a podcast. Well, I suppose I still do a podcast, but I I I just know how much work goes into it and how much if you want to you've got to keep showing up every week to to to make a dent. And so appreciate you doing that and giving random people like me a voice as well. I really appreciate it.

Chris Colley 37:12

Well, it's a pleasure, always a pleasure. These uh conversations I look so much forward to. I mean, I learned so much in these conversations, and I appreciate really your insights. You've gave me given me a lot to think about as well.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Like likewise, likewise, been great to chat with you as always. Thanks, Chris.