Chris Colley 0:08

Welcome back, everybody. Here we are, the beginning of a school year, Shift Ed podcast coming to you. Um and this yeah, start of a school year is a tricky time because a lot of the foundations are built for the rest of the 10 months that we're gonna have these kids in front of us. So I felt it really appropriate to have Amy Reese Hoff come in, who's an early uh learning specialist out of the Department of Education in Wyoming. Um and why I connect so much with Amy is that her mindset is all about the kids, you know, and what's best for them and how they learn best. I mean, I know that educators, we always have these big hearts, but it's good to know what um is factual and what is, you know, our hopes and aspirations. Um so Amy, thanks so much for for coming on here and sharing some insight into these starting the school off year in a a really positive way with our youngest learners.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Thank you so much for having me today, Chris. I appreciate it.

Chris Colley 1:12

So, Amy, I I like starting with a big question, and I get this asked quite often when I'm working with teachers is what is play? I mean, you know, like we come in with all this baggage of and images when we think of play in our minds as older, you know, teachers, educators, like this is, you know, this is how we saw play. How do how do you describe that to educators? Is like what is play in its essence?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Play is learning with this educational approach where children learn by exploring, experimenting, problem solving through play rather than through this passive direct instruction. Instead of sitting at desk completing worksheets, children are actively um constructing things like knowledge, using real objects, hands-on activities, and social activities and those interactions that come from it. That's how I would explain it.

Chris Colley 2:09

I love that. I love that. There's no end game to it, it is developmental, which is much more process-oriented as we might see it.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Yep. It's all about child-led exploration, letting them make those choices about what to explore following their intrinsic curiosity at the same time.

Chris Colley 2:29

Right. And here in Quebec, we we've had a reform for our preschool educators probably like five years ago, six years ago. And there's a huge emphasis now on free play. Um and again, this misunderstanding between, you know, play versus uh I mean, they're putting free in the front of it, you know, and I think their intention is kids decide who they play with, where they play, what they play with. There's no outcome that is necessary. Do you can you add, like, if we throw that free play in the front of that, does it change what play is?

SPEAKER_01 3:07

To me, it does not because it's child-led. Free play is unstructured, child-initiated, child-directed um activity with no set outcome. These rules that are imposed by adults or whatever it may be, these step-by-step instructions. In free play, children hold complete agency over what they're doing and how they should do it and who they should play with and when the activity ends. It's the same exact thing as child-led play to me. Unlike guided play or teacher-directed activities, free play has no hidden academic agenda or required deliverable at the end.

Chris Colley 3:45

Right. And in your experience, like how much like if you're looking at a day of a of a child in school, you know, or in preschool, we'll say, like, where's the ratio between the free play that the kids need to develop themselves with that more kind of, you know, the rigor of academics and the preparation for, I think I loved what you said. It's not pre-first grade. You know, it's preschool, but not pre-first grade. Can you can you fill in that gap a little bit for us?

SPEAKER_01 4:20

At least 50% of the day should be child-led instruction. Any any more than that? Yeah, it can get a little chaotic, but at the same time, 50% of it should be child-led for children specifically aged three to six. Free play should take up 50 to 75% of their waking day. So that's roughly like three to five hours total in a six to eight hour program or a routine in there. It should be just all this free play and then maybe an hour, hour and a half of guided play, 45 minutes max of like teacher-led instruction. That's my personal opinion. But giving children this 15-minute recess in between all of it also makes up some of that time. So you do the child-led play and then give them this recess and then go back to this child-led play. But it's so imperative that the children are leading that um exploration.

Chris Colley 5:20

Right, right. And I mean, you've been doing this for a while now, like you have, you know, 25 plus years experience working in early childhood. What are we misunderstanding about this the most? Because it seems like we bring certain concepts or ideas on how kids learn and develop. But it always seems like we're kind of missing the point of it all if you walk into a preschool classroom or, you know, and I'm not saying it they're all like that, but we see a lot where it's much more teacher-led and it's much more this pre preparation or readiness for, you know, when things start to count in grade one. Like what where are these misunderstandings or like, and and how do you kind of like clarify those in a nice, friendly, jovial way?

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Well, I think that's what's going on, right? Is you come out of your education prep program and you're expected to be this orchestrator of this constant production to make sure things are in line and they don't get chaotic or whatever it may be. And if, you know, God forbid, somebody walks into my room and it's a parent or an administrator and they don't see us working on this strong academic portion of the day. We treat play as a break from learning when in reality, play is a primary vehicle through which children learn. And so we need to get better about educating those that are in leadership positions, administrators, and parents at the same time to understanding that you may walk past the room and it may look chaotic or that this formal instruction is not happening. But really, that is the foundation of where this real cognitive work is happening. It's high-level cognitive work that fires up the same prefrontal cortex networks using adult complex problem solving, emotional regulation, working memory, all those things in children when you when you see what they're doing, because oftentimes it's um play is frivolous extra time. Not necessarily what's happening. It's it's you know, it's actual instruction that's happening, it's high-level cognitive work. And we need to change that narrative.

Chris Colley 7:42

Yeah, totally. Well, we're seeing that too in the stats of how much outdoor time kids are actually going in and playing outdoors, um, and the reduction of that. Um I guess my question is like if we're pushing these formal academics all the time, what what's the repercussion of that down the road? Like when the kids in grade two or three, if if they've never had that chance to develop naturally who they are and their capacities, and you know, like if we push formal too quickly, what could be the consequences of that?

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Well, and I can't help but think infant and toddler mental health is declining or language is declining. We just feel this constant academic stress, and we're pressing that down onto our youngest learners. And I can't help but wonder if that infant and toddler mental health crisis that's happening isn't because of that academia pressure that's on a three-year-old to learn, learn your letters and learn the days of the week and learn the month of the year and all these things. Um, there's this mental health crisis and this surge of anxiety and helplessness that's happening. Without free play, children lose that primary setting where they experience these personal controls and agency. This directly correlates with higher rates of anxiety, depression, helplessness, and all these mindsets where they just rely on adults to solve these issues and children who don't practice navigating these small, self-directed conflicts then during play struggle to regulate frustration, fear, anger, all those things, which is directly connected to this infant and toddler mental health crises that we're experiencing. So if we take some of that academic pressure off of A, the educators and B, the children that are in those classrooms, I can't help but wonder if we could start to remediate some of that infant and toddler mental health crises.

Chris Colley 9:41

Right. Totally. And like the idea of movement, like it can remedy all of that, right? Like just the idea, like I remember uh listening to you and like just getting movement to happen more, particularly in boys, you emphasize, but I mean, it it it's something that movement has this capacity to do exactly the opposite of what you just described.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Like it it's without climbing, hanging, digging, balancing, all these things, children fail to develop these core strengths, the stability. And I go off all the time about vestibular sense. This is required for sitting still and tracking a line on a text page. You don't learn that how to hone in on that vestibular sense without uneven surfaces and learning to balance. All those things are in connection. And so I have some very strong opinions on circle time in general. And I've you know received a lot of backlash about my dislike for circle time. My dislike for circle time comes from making children sit crisscross applesauce with a bubble in their mouth. And and guess when those behaviors are happening during that time because they're not moving and they're also not receptive to anything that's going on during that instruction time. So if your children, if you if you insist on doing circle time, let them get up and jump on one foot, let them spin around, twirl around, whatever they want to do, because that's when their brain is actively engaged.

Chris Colley 11:14

Interesting. So movement actually opens the brain for recep for receiving and plus the development of you know regulation, understanding what your body can do. Like, as you said, it has this way of regulating, which if we don't get that regulation done at an early age, I mean, I've seen kids, you know, in grade two or three that might not have had enough play, and you can kind of get a sense of where they're needing more support or more development to happen.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Yep. Movement and sensory regulation, they're directly linked. The brain regulates the mind through the body. So for a young child, this emotional self-regulation is not this abstract mental skill, right? It's a physical, neurological state driven by sensory input from movement. What happened after COVID was great proof of that. Children went back into classrooms and they had no spatial awareness. They weren't moving. And so they're bumping into each other and conking heads with each other and all these things because they didn't have the spatial awareness because they weren't up and moving and going, Oh, I have to navigate around this or move around this person, whatever it may be. We never saw anything like that before. And this spatial awareness gets honed in on when they're moving, but you have to be up and moving.

Chris Colley 12:39

Yeah. Which brings in the outdoors beautifully. That what a what a way to get movement to happen is bringing them outside. Um, again, we have these misunderstandings of outside play as recess or lunch hour. How do you how do you have conversations with teachers about the importance of movement and also getting them outside? Because we're seeing that also collapse. Like, I know you could pull a memory up in a second about playing outside as a you know, small toddler. I mean, I have hundreds of memories of that, and we seem to be like forgetting that aspect that nature, we're a part of it, and we develop along with it. Um, and if we're not going outside, it it's really cutting off a part of that movement, but also that development. Can you talk a little bit about that importance of like how do you get teachers to realize going outside is good and not like, you know, that's recess time?

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Yep. It's that it's there's no extra danger, it's not additional work. Here's how to do it. So outdoor learning is the ultimate delivery mechanism for movement, regulation, and play. It's this natural backdrop that we have for doing this. So when learning moves outside, the environment naturally provides that exact neurological and development input that the indoor environment restricts. And so these children that aren't able to self-regulate in an indoor learning setting, they're naturally able to do that in this outdoor learning setting because things like let's go back to vestibular sense for a second. Unlike indoor flat full floors, nature is unpredictable. So step links change, ground surfaces shift, all these things, balancing on a trunk that requires microadjustments, whatever it may be, this dynamic movement stimulates the vestibular system, the entire system, sharpening this eye tracking, spatial awareness, all these things. And they're directly connected to radiant math. So we're not letting go of the academics, we're just honing in on them at the same time. Then you take that self-regulation processes. So this exposure to natural light, fresh air, green grass, green spaces, it literally drops cortisol levels. And so lowers heart rate, reduces sensory fatigue. Most times the open space naturally just diffuses noise and friction, leading to fewer behavioral meltdowns. So you're getting the academics, plus you're getting the social emotional learning component of it in this natural backdrop that is just perfectly ready to go. And you don't have to do anything. You just have to go outdoors to do it.

Chris Colley 15:38

Right, right. And you've also said less is more, right? And like, how more less can you have of taking them outside, maybe having a few loose parts around, but can you can you flush that out for like why is less more for these kids when you take them outside?

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Because you don't have these flashy toys and all these things and these lights and these sounds and all these things and these colorful um objects right in front of you, right? So I tell teachers all the time if you're gonna be in an indoor setting, take 50% of the stuff that you have in a classroom, take it out, put some loose parts in there, and see what kind of magic can happen. You go outdoors, and it's this very natural colors, natural colors that we see in a real environment, super imperative because those browns and those greens and the blues that we see and the flowers and all those things, it's these natural colors. And so we're not on this sensory overload from too many things going on at once. So in a traditional classroom, it's you know, we're gonna go from this center to this center to this center, and all of them are bright and flashy and everything else. Well, create your centers in an outdoor learning setting and you can still have your dramatic play, you can still have your uh sensory bends, you can have things set up, but it's with natural materials that they're actually used to seeing, not something they're only going to see one time in their classroom setting and then never see it again.

Chris Colley 17:05

Right, right. And how do you coach a teacher that wants to take their kids outside, might not have done it much? Like, how do you how do you enable them or empower the teacher to feel like you're it's okay to do this? You can do it. You can take them out. You don't have to do, you know, start small. And like, what kinds of advice do you give to teachers when they're thinking about I want to start doing this more?

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Practice indoors in the classroom and just practice, practice, practice. We're going to go on this long walk, and here's what it's going to look like. And um, you know, the the question I get asked the very most is we have a child who's a runner. What are we going to do when we go into an outdoor learning setting and we have a child who's a runner? Obviously, I run a program called the Get Wild Wyoming program. And so what I have trained teachers to do is to work with their classroom. And if you see a child doing something that is unsafe or hazardous, big difference, not risky, unsafe or hazardous, the entire class starts howling. And so it draws the attention immediately to, okay, little Johnny just wandered off. We need to now put our focus over here. Somebody's doing something very unsafe, and there is a risk that comes with it and a danger that comes with it. Um, so, but practice in your classroom, practice what an uneven surface looks like. Put out some blocks and have them try and balance on them. You can do all these things in this indoor learning setting and then go for a short walk and do that a couple of times. Get more comfortable, get yourself more comfortable, get the children and the students more comfortable with it, get the parents more comfortable with it, and then just continue to build up from there. But I wouldn't jump into it immediately if you're not comfortable.

Chris Colley 18:52

Right. Yeah. I like that advice to like try it out a bit, get the kids also like talking with them about it to what to what our intent is when we go out there, what we're gonna do. Do you believe in like um when you bring kids out like circle time in the sense of we have a gathering spot, like kind of a sit spot that we all come back to, like once we're we've done, you know, our exploring and playing? That like, do you have those kinds of structures as well that you like teachers to think about when they're starting to think about taking the kids out?

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Correct. And there there has to be some sort of structure in this outdoor setting because there's there's no fences, there's no walls, there's no boundaries. And so, yes, we need to have a a place to come back to. But what I always encourage teachers to do is either find a stump that belongs to each student that they can sit on, have them bring a carpet remnant, a blanket from home, and you know, you can play your game and say, okay, one, two, three, everybody back on your spots. Okay, and practice doing that so I know that when I say, you know, it's time to regather in group. And when I say that, I don't mean sit on your carpet remnant, criss-cross applesauce with a bubble in your mouth. I mean you have to be on your on your carpet piece, your carpet remnant, but jumping up and down, doing a handstand, I don't care what you're doing, as long as you're on it to where I can count every one of you at the same time.

Chris Colley 20:19

That's right. Cool. I love that. So the start of the year is here. I mean, teachers are faced with all right, here's the stuff we got to cover, here's the field days, here's the, you know, all this stuff that they get even before the kids come into the classroom. What do you think one or two things that they could start to change that a little bit, you know, starting in these beginning um days of school to kind of like get into that mindset of more play, more outside, more movement?

SPEAKER_01 20:52

I always encourage everybody at first to try taking snacks on a walk. Let's do our snack time and walk at the same time and have conversations about what we're seeing and we're eating our graham crackers or our pretzels or a goldfish, whatever it may look like. But you could take those things, put them in a cup, and just go for a walk where you're having your snack. That's a really great way to just ease into a movement and be getting the kids outdoors at the same time. And who knows the conversation that'll be fostered from being in the outdoor learning setting. Anything can come up. And so it's child-led because we're having conversations about what the children actually want to talk about, not forcing them to talk about, you know, zoo animals or whatever it may be for the theme of the week. Um, just take your snack and go outside. That's a very easy way to just ease your way into moving, getting outside, experiencing all of it at the same time.

Chris Colley 21:49

Right. And it kind of sets the kids up too for their expectations of getting to know you as a teacher as to the kinds of things that we're gonna do now in this class, you know. Or as as we progress together, it also keeps them in the loop so that it's not like because I mean routines are super important, particularly if we're a youngest, um, establishing those routines, but kind of like covertly.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

No, it it's you're absolutely right. And even if we're gonna practice having snack on uneven surfaces, okay, well, we're going to build a bridge out of our blocks today, and we're gonna eat our snack and we're gonna walk over these blocks, and we're going to set this up in our classroom and just practice that. So we're not spilling the snack, and we know these children are eating and all these things that come with it at the same time. But there's a way to practice and a way to ease into it, and also to let parents know this is this is not a traditional classroom in the sense that we're going to spend our entire day within these four walls. Here's what we're going to be doing instead, and your child will be better for it because of XYZ.

unknown 22:58

Nice.

Chris Colley 22:59

Love it. And external pressures that you feel what kind of advice do you give to teachers when they feel like they want to do this stuff? They believe in it, they know it's the best for the kids, but they feel, you know, administrative pressure or like, you know, the colleague pressure of are you getting these kids ready for me? And like, what do you tend to say to those teachers to reply as? You know, like what are some ways that they can explain that this is the way that I believe kids develop? And I think we should all start believing this. Is there delicate ways that you can do it without causing too much of a stir amongst colleagues in the admin of the school?

SPEAKER_01 23:45

I tell everybody, wouldn't you rather have a child entering kindergarten that has a joy for learning? Wouldn't you rather have a child who um is able to self-regulate going into your classroom than the child who's coming in that can, yeah, they can write their name and say all their letters and all these things, but wouldn't you rather have a child who is able to self-regulate? And oftentimes when I bring up just the joy that comes into play-based learning and the joy that comes with just wanting to come to school because we've now taken that pressure off of the teachers and the students. Oftentimes, when I bring up the joy, it sort of eases those, the, the worrisome concerns that come along with it and helps administrators, parents, other teachers to understand, no, they're right. I would rather have a child who learns to love school at a very young age than somebody who I have to fight every single day to come to school because they don't like it.

Chris Colley 24:47

Yes. Here, here. I love it. We'll end on that. Amy, thanks so much for sharing these insights. I think that we've given lots of food for thought in very positive ways. There's things you can empower yourself with. This is not a dooming gloom. This is um a joyful discovery of how we can start shifting um what we do with our youngest learners to get them ready for life. We'll say not grade one. So thanks so much, Jamie. I really appreciate your your insights.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Thank you so much for having me today. And if anybody, you know, has any questions, comments, concerns, I'm happy to connect with them and have the same conversation.

Chris Colley 25:25

Amazing. I'll definitely put your LinkedIn on uh the descriptor of the podcast so people can connect with you as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Thank you so much.

Chris Colley 25:36

Thanks, Amy.