Chris Colley: 0:13

here we are another episode shift, that podcast coming to you. Um, I have a great guest today, steve bowler. Um, he's an author, educator, thoughtcaster, I mean. The list goes on and on and on. Check out his website, I'll include it in the show notes. And he goes by the persona of Stan Tall Steve, and I assume that's because he's tall. But I'm going to let Steve kind of fill in those gaps. So, stan Tall Steve, where did this come from Steve? Yeah, in those gaps. So, stand tall Steve, where did this come from Steve?

Steve Bollar: 0:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah, First of all, hey man, thanks so much for having me.

Chris Colley: 0:49

This is exciting. Oh, it's a pleasure.

Steve Bollar: 0:50

I love chatting it up with some great people. Who knows what it's all about. Yeah, my name is Steve Bowler. I go by Stand Tall Steve and it is because I am a tall guy. I am six foot seven, six seven, you know, black guy, bald head. I look like a basketball player, but I'm not. My name is Steve. I do stand tall. It all kind of works well together, where this all kind of came about.

Steve Bollar: 1:19

I really got into speaking and training and consulting and such, and a lot of people who are in speaking they use their name. You know, hey, I am Steve Bowler, speaker or whatever. You know, chris. So I was thinking I needed a persona. I needed something that can kind of hook some people and being tall is a major part of my life, specifically the way that I look. I look like someone who should be on the basketball court but I'm not. And it really defined who I was growing up as a youth, to a teenager, to a young adult, to now even being an adult, and so therefore, you know that stand tall piece. I was talking with some other speakers and we kind of came up with that persona but it works well because it connects directly to the message that I share with everyone.

Chris Colley: 2:06

I like the idea too I think I heard you mention this that because of your height also, you stand out. But you can see over everything you know, kind of that leadership eye on the prize of keeping all the eggs together there. Yeah, I really like that. That's really cool.

Steve Bollar: 2:24

It's a major piece of what I say. Like when I go out and I speak, I talk about leadership. Specifically, I talk about K-12 schools. That's my main area Culture and climate leadership development, idea development. So, as it relates to leadership, I connect the world of tall people to the world of leadership.

Steve Bollar: 2:44

And number one tall people. We don't blend in. Like we don't blend in. You look into a crowd, we pop out right away, you can't miss us. Same thing with leaders.

Steve Bollar: 2:53

It's not your job to blend in, and I say that to leaders A lot of times. Leaders are like well, I'm just like everybody else. No, that's why you're a leader. Yes, you connect with other people, you feel welcome, but there's a reason why you stand out and so, therefore, you need to embrace that. There was a time when I was younger where it would bother me greatly that I stood out so much. No, that's my job. The job is to stand out. Another thing about leaders is leaders. I mean with tall people, we have a different view of the world, right, like, just like you said, we're in a crowd, we can see everything. Like you know other people and I always give the example you know how many people have been in a crowd with a tall friend right. And what do you do? You put your tall friend to the front. You grab their hand or their shoulder. You say go.

Steve Bollar: 3:38

And off they go and they pull you through. That's because they have a different view. They can see the vision. They can see where it is that you need to go. They can plan things out. Same thing with leadership. You know, with leaders you have to have that vision. It's a vision, is a picture of future success, a compelling picture of future success, a positive picture of future success. So you have that vision and you're taking everybody where they need to go, you're sharing the vision with them and moving them forward.

Steve Bollar: 4:10

And the last thing about being tall and leadership is I say that you know, tall people we don't fit. We don't fit in the world. You know, I don't fit in cars, airplanes, doorways, ceiling fans, shower heads, spider webs these are all issues in the world of tall people. We just we don't fit. But here's the thing, world it's all people. We just we don't fit. But here's the thing, even though we don't fit, do we give up? No, we can't give up. Like I travel all over the world because I work with schools all over the place and sometimes I have to get into tiny little airplanes, like I mean, I almost, on my hands and knees, try to get to my seat, I don't walk up to the plane and go. You know what it's really small, I'm not gonna go. No, suck it up, buttercup, let's go. You know what it's really small, I'm not going to go no suck it up, buttercup, let's go.

Steve Bollar: 4:46

You know it's a little uncomfortable, but you got to make it work. Same thing with leadership it's not always going to work, it's not always going to fit. You're going to have to be uncomfortable sometimes, but guess what? Suck it up, buttercup, let's go.

Steve Bollar: 5:00

That's the role so that's how I connect the world of tall people to leadership, just to kind of give a different perspective and understanding, Like you know what. Yeah, there's some self-personal responsibility. I'm not supposed to always blend in with everyone else. I do have to have a vision of where it is. I'm going and take people there and it's going to be tough and uncomfortable at times, but this is the role that I have Amazing.

Chris Colley: 5:20

Amazing, I love it. Amazing, amazing, I love it, I love it. I think it just works so well too. I love how you married those two together, um, so well. I always like to kind of start off, steve, with with. Can you give me some tipping points that happened in your career so far that kind of brought you to where you are now? Um, do you have some of those stories that a moment or an encounter or that kind of changed your trajectory of, of your career, my career, my life, yeah, everything.

Steve Bollar: 5:50

I mean, you know, there there are. There is a lot of different ones. I mean, truthfully, if you want to go way back, it was eighth grade. Uh, you know, talk about career and life and everything. Eighth grade was the year that everything went nuts for me. Uh, at the beginning of eighth grade I was five foot. At the beginning of eighth grade I was five foot eight. At the end of eighth grade I was six foot two. Five, eight, six, two. So that's seven inches. That's a lot of growth in one year. Now, usually when kids go through their growth spurt they get what? Three, two, three million four inches. I had seven.

Steve Bollar: 6:22

It hurt, it was rough. So I mean I was at big feet, I was tripping over myself, my knees hurt, my legs hurt, my back hurt, my arms hurt. I had chest pains. Because my chest was always hurting I had to wear like a Holtzer monitor. My parents took me to the doctor. You know I was. I was hunched over. You know you ever see someone who's hunched over doesn't stand up straight, because I was embarrassed of how tall I was and how much I stood out from everyone around me. So eighth grade was a rough year for me.

Steve Bollar: 6:52

So I was in school and I was walking home from school. One day I was walking home with a friend of mine. Her name was Danielle, so Danielle lived over on 7th Street, I lived over on 9th Street, and so as we get to 7th Street, danielle, she told me to stay still. And I'm like what's going on? She said you know, just stay there. She walked behind me, she put her hand on my shoulder and then she balled up her fist and punched me in the middle of my back and I was like you know what is wrong with you and everything. If you hold the shoulder, punch the back, what happens? You arch your back up and backup right.

Steve Bollar: 7:27

And, as I said, I was hunched over so much. And she said to me she said, steve, you're a tall person, stop trying to be small, stand tall. That's when it clicked. That's when I was like, oh, my goodness, what in the world am I doing? What I mean that moment? I mean I remember it. So you know those moments in life that you remember crystal clear you remember the smell the the temperature the everything?

Steve Bollar: 7:48

yes, totally, it was that moment and I stood there and I looked at her like, yes, why in the world am I doing this? Now let me explain. Let me explain my family. All right, let me talk about my family my father's six foot six. My mom's five foot ten. My brother's six foot six. My sister's five foot ten, my uh, my grandfather six foot ten. Like he's a giant.

Steve Bollar: 8:12

I'm going to be tall, bro, you know there was no getting away from that, that was just like sealed but here I am trying to fight it, and it took her punching in my back for me to realize this. So at that moment I kind of changed the way that I carried myself. It was instantaneous confidence in who it is that I was embracing, who I am, and that kind of changed everything. Now, granted, I didn't know a ton about leadership and the whole world and everything I mean, I was student body president and stuff like that, you know young leader but that changed everything, my overall persona of of so, so much.

Chris Colley: 8:53

So that was the seed was planted right there, steve, at that moment Like amazing, that's such a great story and that kind of changed that, that that whole piece of who I am and what I, what I am Right.

Chris Colley: 9:05

Right, and you talk about change, right, and I really feel like that story you just said has a lot to do with mindset, right, like changing the way you see things. You know from something very fixed this is who I am, it's all you know. I have no control over it too. I have power, I can do stuff. How do you, how do you develop a mindset? How do you encourage educators you know in your leadership roles, to have that capacity or to be aware of that capacity? Because I do believe some teachers just believe no, this is who I am, I don't learn anymore, I can't do anything else. This is who I am. Yeah, in reality, that's. We know that that's not the case. Can you expand on that a little bit of like, how do you?

Chris Colley: 9:50

get those mindsets, more instilled into the openness of, we could do anything we want.

Steve Bollar: 9:56

We can make this happen. Now, there are parameters, obviously, that we have in schools, but you're right, it's a mindset. You can work within those parameters and make things possible. One of the things I talk pretty heavily on and actually, no, I don't talk heavily on, I hit it and I leave it where it is, but it changes everybody's mindset and perception quickly is I say to them are you at compliance or commitment? Are you at compliance or commitment?

Steve Bollar: 10:24

Compliance Schools are very compliance-based organizations. Right, we have outlines, we have rules, we have expectations, and so a lot of educators roll and work within the compliance mindset. This is what you tell me to do. This is what I will do, as opposed to being in a commitment mindset. So, compliance you're talking about rules, laws, policies. You know all those things.

Steve Bollar: 10:52

Commitment mindset you're thinking of, you know whatever it takes. Possibilities are endless. I can do this. What's another way of thinking about this? Because when you're committed to something, you'll go above and beyond. Your whole mindset shifts like well, I'm committed to these kids, I'm committed to my profession, I'm committed to this community, and if I'm committed to it, I'm going to keep looking. I'm committed to my profession, I'm committed to this community, and if I'm committed to it, I'm going to keep looking, I'm going to keep trying things differently, Whereas you're compliant. You're like okay, tell me what you need me to do, I'll do that. I've got my ducks in a row. And then, when you're done putting the ducks in a row, that they tell you to. Well, I did what you told me to do. Well, your kids aren't successful. I told you, I did what you told me to do.

Steve Bollar: 11:34

I've yet to see any school, any district, any classroom, any teacher be outrageously successful just being compliant, Just compliant, just compliant. That's all you got. Compliant. If you're just being because to me compliance is accomplishment it's a lower level of accomplishment. So if you want to be more or get better outcomes, feel good about yourself. You can't just be compliant. You've got to be committed. And when you're committed now, you're going to get some things. So that's the first thing that I do. I make sure that educators understand what that's about. The second thing I do is, when I said I talk about culture, climate, leadership and ideas, is I like to share ideas? I share so many ideas.

Steve Bollar: 12:21

One of my books that I have is called Ideas, ideas, ideas, which is a ton of different ideas. When people hear different types of ideas, different ways of thinking, then they realize the possibilities. Oh, you could do that. Oh, that's possible. Oh, someone else tried it. Oh, so once they realize that it can be done, other people have tried it differently it's almost like giving them a subliminal permission to step into the commitment realm, to step into the idea realm, to step into the commitment realm, to step into the idea realm. A lot of times the teachers, they just need permission to do so. They've been stuck in compliance so long they don't have the permission, and the permission comes when they see and look beyond their walls and hear about other ideas Absolutely Well, and I do think our institution is very.

Chris Colley: 13:11

You know right and wrong. I mean, you got the right answer.

Chris Colley: 13:14

You got the wrong answer right. Like that's our foundational practice, really Right Testing, info test, info test. So I love what you're saying to Steve, like the mindset too of and we talked a little bit about this one before we hopped on here where you were talking about climate and culture, and I found that that was when I was looking through your materials in your books and like it seems like that's at the forefront of a lot of what you talk about is. Could you, could you, um, elaborate on on that, like climbing culture, what? What is that in a school and and how can we influence it absolutely?

Steve Bollar: 13:56

climbing a culture. It's who it is. It is the bedrock of of everything that can take place within any organization, especially a school, and if you're not purposeful in crafting the culture and climate, you're just what are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? Come on, you got to be purposeful in it, and the thing is a lot of people don't know what to do to be purposeful with it. So let's break everything down first, to begin with. So the anchor to culture and climate is clearly identifying what you respect and value. What is it that you collectively everyone respect and value? I go to schools a lot and I say to them if I was to talk to everyone in this building all the teachers, aides, administration, support staff, students, parents and ask them hey, what do we respect, what do you respect and value in this organization? Would everyone say the same thing? Nope, nope. I've yet to find any school that says, yeah, we all say the exact same thing about respect and value. So that's the first step is to find out what do we collectively respect and value, and there's many different ways you can go about doing that. So let's say that you work together within your organization and you come up with teamwork, integrity and accountability. All right, so we're going to go with those three things we all collectively respect and value teamwork, integrity, accountability. So let's go to, and that's going to be our anchor.

Steve Bollar: 15:20

So let's go to climate. What is climate? Climate is the emotional state people feel when they enter a space. So how do they feel when they walk into the school? How do they feel when they walk into a classroom? You know, it's the mood, it's the feeling, right, of how they feel. That's why we call the weather outside the climate. You walk out, you feel it. We're emotional creatures. That's what climate is. Now, climate fluctuates, right, it changes month to month, week to week Day to day, sometimes Day to day, minute to minute, second to second.

Steve Bollar: 15:58

Sometimes right, like I would tell people the climate at the beginning of the school year is different than the climate before testing, right? Yes, it just is a different climate. I could walk into one classroom feels great. Walk into another classroom feels bad. That's climate. So when you think of climate, it kind of fluctuates. Sometimes it's close to what you say, you respect and value, sometimes it's not. That's climate.

Steve Bollar: 16:25

Now there's culture. What is culture? Culture is really? It's just a fancy word for traditions. That's what culture really is. Culture is a culmination of tradition and practices that happen within a school. That's what culture is.

Steve Bollar: 16:40

So let's say you're going to go on holiday, you're going on vacation, and you say, oh, I'm going to go to this other country, it's going to be so wonderful, I want to get immersed into the culture. You want to get immersed into the traditional things that country does. It's traditional things. Same thing in a school. What traditional things are happening that create the culture? Now, there are two different types of culture. There's your operational culture and then there's your behavioral culture. Your operational culture, that one, that's how you operate.

Steve Bollar: 17:11

How do you traditionally operate? How do kids come in the building? How do they move in the hallways? No-transcript. How do people traditionally behave? How do they talk to each other? How much is tolerated right? How do students talk to students? How do students talk to teachers? How do teachers talk to students? How do students talk to administrators? How do administrators talk to students? How do administrators talk to teachers, like, how do everybody interact with each other traditionally over time?

Steve Bollar: 17:56

Okay, we have all of our parts. So let's do and imagine. I know everybody's listening, but I want you to imagine what it is that I'm saying to you. So let's say we have this diagram. In the middle of this diagram is what you say you respect and value Teamwork, integrity, accountability. Those are the anchors Now, wrapped around those three words waving up and down. Is the climate right? Because we know sometimes it's close to it, sometimes it's not close to it, it bounces around.

Steve Bollar: 18:26

Then let's think about two parallel lines, horizontal parallel lines, one above, one below. The one above is your behavioral culture, the one below is your operational culture. Here's the thing Our goal is to get the climate to feel good, because we're emotional creatures. It's all about that climate. We want to feel good regularly. In order to get that climate to be stable, close to what we respect and value, you have to work on the culture. Right.

Steve Bollar: 18:57

That culture, that behavioral culture and your operational culture have to be in alignment with teamwork, integrity and accountability. Your operations isn't in alignment with teamwork, integrity and accountability. Hold people accountable to that. Are the behaviors in alignment with teamwork, integrity and accountability? And when they are that crazy wavy line of climate, it shrinks down. It shrinks down closer to what it is you respect and value.

Steve Bollar: 19:24

And when your climate, the emotions, are connected to what you respect and value teamwork, integrity and accountability, people are happy, students are happy, teachers are happy, communities are happy, administrators are happier. Now it's still going to wave. You know that climate, but it won't be big swells like oh, we're out of control, the morale is bad, hold people accountable. And it leans on the leadership. It leans on the teachers to do it to each other and eventually it trickles down to the students, where they're doing it to each other, where they're holding each other accountable to. This is who we are. We're about teamwork, integrity, accountability or whatever the three words that you're going to anchor it to. Right, right, right. So I know that's kind of a long, roundabout way, but that's what climate and culture really is, and it's possible, it is totally doable, to make a school organization wrap around what you respect and value.

Chris Colley: 20:16

Absolutely, and I'll include that on the post, that visual, so that people can see, Because I love that visual too. I saw it in one of your talks and it makes so much sense.

Steve Bollar: 20:27

But the words you just put to it. It's just like yes, that makes so much.

Chris Colley: 20:31

Steve, what about? So leadership, like here in Quebec anyway, we have a tendency of having principals turn over, you know, relatively short, usually five handful of years. How do schools continue that climate and culture that they would have established with another leader? How do they transfer that over? I guess what I'm trying to get at is how does a principal gauge the climate and culture of a school when they're first coming in, so that you're aware of, and not stepping on toes where you're like I'm implementing this new cultural aspect or this climate is we're going to change, like what kind of advice do you give to principals that are new to a school, that might come into a really, you know, great, great culture, great climate, or the opposite? What are some of those, those tips and tricks or strategies that you offer up to support those, those, those new principals in school?

Steve Bollar: 21:34

Yeah, exactly Like I said, I do climate, culture, leadership, development, right, and all those things. Well so I do a lot of coaching of administrators and I get a good fair share of new building principals. The number one thing I say to building principals is or any leader that's coming into a school, and this is pretty common it's like you got to listen, got to listen, listen, listen. Yes, there are times you have to make some decisions. That's your job. All right, put out fires, you know all those things. But the more that you can listen, the better.

Steve Bollar: 22:06

When you get in there, you have to interview those teachers. Yes, you did the whole interview in order to get the position. Now it's your turn to interview those teachers. And the interview of the teachers is what do you do? How long have you been here? What things do you like most about this school? You know you can touch on some things that need to be improved. All right, because you don't want it to turn into a you know what kind of thing and they're complaining about all the different things you know, touch on it.

Steve Bollar: 22:34

But what is it that you love about this school? What are some great things that you saw coming up that may need to change? You know that. You know coming up that you want to keep going. Now don't just get this information and hold it separate. Find the connections between them. You're going to find out some good information about what good things of the culture that everybody respects and values. Okay, here we go. Now I kind of have a better understanding of what that is.

Steve Bollar: 23:01

The second thing I tell a lot of new administrators is you need to over-communicate, over-communicate. A lot of times they come in and they get into the world of administrivia and in the world of administrivia you keep things to yourself and you have to be the leader of the ministry. You know, and it's like, cut it out, cut it out. You need to over-communicate because, as much as you're trying to get the integrity and the understanding of your staff, they're trying to do the same thing to you, and the best way for them to do that is to understand how you make decisions, how you are deciding things, what your thought process is. So, email more than what you usually would. Talk more than you usually would. Even if you're a talker talk more than you usually, would I more than you usually would. Even if you're a talker, talk more than you usually would. I always say to them specifically the first six months. Now we know school district, the schools they run good 10 months, or you know, plus whatever. First six months you better over-communicate. Hey, I was thinking about this, yz, and these are some of the thoughts I have. I'll give you my answer soon. Even if you don't have the answer, just say this is some of your thought process, because what's going to happen is people are going to see your thought process. They're going to say, okay, I see how she makes decisions. Sometimes they say you know what, I'm now empowered to come in and give some of my thought to you. Oh, wonderful, now you're developing a dialogue, all right.

Steve Bollar: 24:21

Third thing I tell administrators is you have to do the door, the office door practice, which I call the office door practice. What that means is you have to protect your time as an administrator to be able to get work done, but you also need to have opportunities for people to communicate well with you. Therefore, you need to tell your staff all right, my door, because you always say, oh, it's an open door policy. No, no, don't do that. No, come on, let's be real. You have three stages for your door. If my door is wide open, come on in. Knock on the door hey, you got a minute. Come on. If my door is halfway open, check with the secretary, see what's going on. First, if my door's shut, don't get upset, my door's shut. Three stages of the door. This way they understand and respect your time where you are. Now I know there's a lot of administrators now. They get a cart and they're rolling all around the hallways and they're in and out of classrooms constantly. That's wonderful, but at certain times you need to go to your office, y'all Okay, so use that as well and that empowers them as well.

Steve Bollar: 25:27

The last thing which I make sure every administrator not just new, but everybody knows is the five levels of decision making, because you need to include people for decisions, but sometimes you don't know which level or how to bring them in so very quickly. Five levels of decision-making. Level one decision-making is you, the administrator, make the decision, no input from anybody else. Usually this is reserved for emergency situations. Something's coming up, maybe it's morning arrival at an elementary school, a hailstorm comes through or bad you know I don't have time. You go over there, get the kids there, keep the kids on the bus. You guys can be on, just boom.

Steve Bollar: 26:04

Level one decision you make it quick, you do it. Level two decision-making is you're the leader. You're going to make a decision, but I'm going to check with other people first. What do you think? What do you think? What do you think I might use your, your input? I might not, but I'm checking in. I want to see what other people think before I make my decision. Level three we're going to make the decision together. My input is no bigger than anybody else. This is when you have like a committee. You know you raise hands, whatever it is Equal amount of decision-making taking place here.

Steve Bollar: 26:38

Level four I'm the leader. Now I'm going to let you somebody else make the decision after I, the leader, give you my input first. So we have something that's going on here. Remember this, remember this, don't forget this. And here's some guidelines for this. Go Now they go and make the decision. Keep me informed in case things don't work out right. But now I'm empowering others, now that I've given you the information. Level five this is when other people make the decision. Me as a leader, I have nothing to do with it. No, you got it. You're empowered. You're fully empowered. You know the vision. You know the vision, the mission, the goals. You know it all. Go for it. Let me know whenever you need to.

Chris Colley: 27:23

And those are various levels, steve too, of shared leadership.

Steve Bollar: 27:24

You're trying to empower your people, but still the buck stops with you as the administrator, yes, and a lot of times leaders don't have that understanding and so when they start thinking, okay, this is a level two situation, oh, I can do a level four situation, but it helps guide their minds to be able to do better. So those are the top four things that I would make sure every new leader does and, in turn, anchoring it to what you respect and value moves the climate and culture better.

Chris Colley: 27:53

Amazing, beautiful full circle here, steve, in 25 minutes Just unbelievable. I so appreciate you coming on and sharing these thoughts. I think that these kinds of conversations need to happen more with our schools, and I think that you've thrown a ton of seeds out here that will surely grow with the people that listen. So thank you so much for taking some time out of your day and sharing these thoughts with us.

Steve Bollar: 28:21

I enjoy this immensely. I love K-12 education and it's my heart and I just want all schools to be better.

Chris Colley: 28:28

They can do it, you can do it Well, I feel your passion and thanks again, and I wish you all the best, too, in your day and weeks and the rest of the school year, and I hope one day we talk again. Steve, this has been such a pleasure to welcome you and I have so many other questions, but I'm respecting our time, so not a problem, hey bring me back.

Steve Bollar: 28:48

We can come back and do a part two or something like that. I got a lot of things. The summer is coming up. I got a lot of speaking engagements. I'm all over the place. Got a new book that's coming out. It came out. It Go to Amazon, check it out. It's an educator's guide to improving climate and culture. So I'm a busy guy, but we always have time for each other, chris. This is great, amazing. Thanks so much, steve. All the best.