Chris Colley: 0:11

Welcome back everyone. Happy New Year. If I haven't said that, I think I said that already, but I'm going to say it again. We are in a frigid month of January here in Quebec anyway, but I have some wonderful. I have a wonderful guest here that's going to warm us all up with some beautiful words and reflections and thought. I have Jenna Jacek from the Outdoor Learning Store and she is the Director for Indigenous Learning there, and I was really pleased that she took me up on this offer to come in and share some of her insights about education, but also from an Indigenous perspective as well. We talk a lot about this and I'm glad that we're getting such a wonderful person to come and share some ideas. So thanks, jennifer, for joining us today here.

Jenna Jasek: 1:04

Aw, thanks so much for having me. It's such kind words.

Chris Colley: 1:08

Well, it's a real pleasure. I've been kind of following you throughout a few years now and your work and articles and videos that you've put forth. It's really been fun to do a bit of a deep dive into what you've been doing, and I'd love to start these with early recollections of when did nature and connection to it and a sense of wanting to share that with others start to percolate for you, because I really feel like you have such a wonderful connection to our natural world and you have this wonderful innate ability to to share it with others in such a wonderful way. Could you tell us what some of your early recollections about? You know where that started and and your community and and where developed?

Jenna Jasek: 2:03

Yeah, well, I live in rural BC, so I grew up on an acreage and I was an only child for six years. I didn't get a sibling until I was six. So I spent a lot of time outside by myself and I just always felt that I was connected to the land. I always felt like they were my siblings and we had, like I, I always talked and connected and just felt most comfortable outdoors and I would just spend time like in the grass, and then we had long grass and I just remember just laying there and just being feeling the most at peace, and so it's always just been a part of me, and my grandma, growing up, would always take us huckleberry picking, uh, and so I always had that.

Jenna Jasek: 2:54

My family was always outside, we were camping and, um, yeah, my grandma had the biggest garden and so I, I was always there, you know, not helping, playing in the soil and running around, and then, yeah, we just, it's just. I love being outdoors. It's where I feel my most true self and I always want everyone else to feel that too, because a day outdoors is there's nothing better than eating outdoors and being outdoors and sharing that fun with family and friends. And, and so I think, gosh, if we could do this every day, that would be incredible, and the world would be different I'm sure.

Jenna Jasek: 3:39

Can you imagine, yeah, and getting kids out there every day, you know they sleep better. And getting kids out there every day, you know they sleep better. You know you crave healthier things when you're outdoors. So, yeah, I just it's just, that's really cool, yeah.

Chris Colley: 3:53

Yeah, I often ask teachers too, like when we're doing outdoor workshops or bringing them outside, to show them how they could bring their kids outside more, For them to recall memories of outdoor when they were young and they always have great stories of fort making and playing with friends and riding bikes and outdoors.

Chris Colley: 4:13

You know like I love that idea of being consumed by the field and the wind and what a magical and I reflect and I'm like do you see your kids that sit in front of you every day having those same experiences? And oftentimes it's not. There seems to be this less of a connection to the natural world. Yet we're going to be leaving these kids to be stewards of the natural world without much experience being a part of it. What do you think's kind of transformed over? You know? A handful of decades here, of, of, of this removal almost of of our beautiful natural world that we have all around us.

Jenna Jasek: 4:58

Yeah, we're just consumed, I think, by the screens and you know they create more. I feel like more of a schedule, more of a routine, of like being connected all the time that you don't make that time for outdoors, or it's like it's so much work to get out there you got to put on all this stuff or you have to, you know, put on the sunscreen and get you know there's always extra things. But once you're out there, you're like I didn't get out here sooner and think, um, yeah, I think it is the screens. Like my kids, um, if I were to say you have a free day, what do you want to do? They're not going to be like I'm gonna go outside. They're like let's get on a screen and watch tv or play a video game. So it's like I understand.

Jenna Jasek: 5:42

But once we're outdoors and we spend tons of time outdoors and it's just like that's what we're doing, so you can have fun or you cannot. You can choose. And so they're actually, they love being outdoors and we do so many different sports that, um, it really connects us and just getting away from the screen is it's, you know, it is we're like really tied to it. So I find that once we break free of it, it's like, oh, I never want to see that thing again okay, right yeah well, it seems too that that's starting to seep a little bit more into into our schools anyway where they're.

Chris Colley: 6:14

Yeah, some are trying to limit it and not have in classrooms and yeah but I mean, I was thinking too like, like at lunchtime, you don't want them to like just all be sitting in a row on their phone because they haven't had it.

Chris Colley: 6:26

You know, like it's, it's an issue that we're going to have to deal with because it is also creating very anxious kids and mental wellbeing, as well as being affected quite a bit by what they're exposed to online, and we have such a we're not very in control of what they're watching or what they choose to view. So it does play this like we're trying to create this balance almost. But the outdoors, I find, is our magic key, I think so, of getting them out. And it kind of leads me to this question how is it that we can get educators thinking more about the outdoors as and this is a quote that the land will teach you? You know, like getting that mindset, in that there's such wonderful lessons out there for any subject area. You can have your math, you can have your ELA, you can have whatever, like it's there, it's a classroom.

Chris Colley: 7:30

How do you get teachers' mindsets to start shifting a little bit towards more of opening those school doors out and getting the kids out?

Jenna Jasek: 7:41

I think the first step is just getting outside, even if it's in your field, like your school field, because there's insects and there's birds, and you do have what, if you just kind of stop and are still for a moment, which is hard, but there is stories being told. You just kind of have to take that breath and listen and look, you know, use all your senses. And the first couple times I just let the kids explore, and you know, because they're so contained in that square box that once they get out they're like, oh my gosh, and you know, just let them run free and be loud. And that's the first step is creating that relationship with, with the land, right, you know, um, you have to figure out what it has and and, and then what you can offer too.

Chris Colley: 8:43

So, yeah, and do you think that that process is an easy process for teachers to go through once they realize the positive effects? Cause you were mentioning it before too, that, like the sense of going outside, we see from research that behavior problems drop right Like kids are much more the anxious, kids are much more free the kids that used to disrupt, become leaders or you know yeah like it shifts, so much.

Chris Colley: 9:09

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah like if you're looking at through that lens, I just don't understand, like I don't see how, as a teacher and I was a teacher as well I mean, I taught for many years that it wouldn't like be like. Of course I'm going to do that why wouldn't I.

Jenna Jasek: 9:24

Why wouldn't I?

Chris Colley: 9:26

What do you think that divide is? That happens that they kind of see it at a distance and it's not like a relevant, important thing to expose our kids to.

Jenna Jasek: 9:37

Yeah, I think it's the stress, the anxiety of getting everything in the curriculum done, that it's kind of like we'll go outside when we have time but you're never going to have time right, because there's always. We're always adding something else. Now you have to teach this or this and it's um. It's really having to take that step and combine um curriculum with the outdoors and making it part of the lessons, which is tricky at first when you're, when you don't know how to do that Um, and so it's just, I think it's kind of accepting that your first lessons of being outdoors are not going to be the lessons that um you have written down.

Jenna Jasek: 10:16

Um, because the exploration is going to be completely different forever wherever you are, because the land is different wherever you are, um, but having wherever you are, but having that giving yourself in your class permission to just go and play because with the play is learning it's just different, right, than what we've been conditioned to believe. So it's just taking that step. You guys can do it. I believe in you all that's it, that too.

Chris Colley: 10:43

And I like the idea too of small, like start small, like get to know your path, you know, like your patch, where you are and your space. And what kinds of things you might want to observe. I can see the intimidation, for example, like for science and math, like where the content is so heavy. But yeah, I also think at the same time, once you open those doors up to science and math, outside it would just seem like a like a snowball effect that would start to happen because you would start to be like oh, observe that and that connection to this, and like um, what are other than encouraging, like do you have some examples that you've seen throughout?

Chris Colley: 11:22

um, where you were like they're getting it?

Jenna Jasek: 11:25

like this is yeah, these are some really great ways that you could start to open, open up your classroom I think the easiest is always, you know, with art or um, with creating for younger, like creating homes for animals. I think those are just, you know, kids get so excited. Let's create a beautiful home for a little mouse that might come here or an insect you know what type of animals might be out in this area. That's always super fun for the little ones. And then, using the materials you have in your area and creating some sort of art of outside, that really just gets you know you're collecting and thinking and the creativity is really important when you're outdoors.

Jenna Jasek: 12:09

Um, that artistry and um imagination really kind of gets you very connected with, with what you have. And that's where I would, that's where I would start is is those sorts things and also, yeah, just observing what you have, like the colors. With the seasons they always change. The animal colors change. Yeah, animals, plants and insects are always so fun for kids and for me. I always think what's going to be fun for me is going to be fun for them.

Chris Colley: 12:43

Yeah, I remember we were working with some teachers and they wanted to look at animal hibernation and that brought up and then we started testing how much they insulate, you know. And yeah, like I said, like once you start going right, and I know we had these little thermometers we put inside and measured outside and then put them inside and looked at the differences and gathered the data on it and like yes like when I say the ball starts, you know the snowball starts happening.

Chris Colley: 13:10

I'll use a winter term. Yeah, it really does right, like. But you have to have that openness to like I'm gonna try and I'm gonna try it again and then I'm gonna try it again. Exactly, doing it one time never is sufficient, really right. You just get your toes wet a little bit.

Jenna Jasek: 13:27

Yeah, that's your first time to just say OK, here I am now. What can I do next time to make it better? I'm always about fun, right Like?

Chris Colley: 13:35

what can we do to?

Jenna Jasek: 13:35

make it more fun, because that's when I learn best.

Chris Colley: 13:39

That's it. That's it. No, that's really yeah. So you new to, are you fairly new to the learning, to the outdoor learning stores, school and store? Is that a new position that you've taken on lately, Jenna?

Jenna Jasek: 13:53

Well, I've been a part of the school and store for about five years now, but I just was kind of what was the word that I would like not advocate? But I was just was kind of um, uh, what was the word that I would like not advocate? But, um, I can't think of the word, but it's. I would always, you know, be looking at resources and um, vetting them to see, and um, I would be on um, we created the truth and reconciliation um every child matters challenge, I think in 2021. And so I, while I was working my other job, I was also um being a part of um, this amazing um store and school.

Chris Colley: 14:35

Yeah, oh, I love it. I've attended numerous webinars and like the numbers of teachers you guys get, it's like amazing, like it's it always floors me every time. I see the numbers going up.

Jenna Jasek: 14:48

I'm like are you serious? I know Okay, People like this, yeah absolutely.

Chris Colley: 14:53

Well, there's great guests on it. I like the free part and that it's for us. It's a little bit after school, Cause we're like three hours ahead of you guys. Yeah ahead of you guys. Yeah, um. So it's always been like, sensational like and some of the people that that I've reached out to as well just to grow our community because quebec's still like we're just in our baby phase right now of getting, yeah, exploring, outdoor learning for, for the youngest, for our kids.

Chris Colley: 15:21

Um, what was the point behind, like the four seasons of indigenous learning? What was the crux behind that program? Because you are one of the organizers of it um, yeah what? What was, what's your intent behind someone participating in this, in this, you know amazing courses. I mean they look super right. I'm you know foundation, foundations of knowledge, learning from the land yeah building reciprocal relationships. I mean all these amazing things like how did, what was, what was the starting seeds of this, this program that you offered? Oh?

Jenna Jasek: 15:54

my God, well, I've I've been a teacher, like I graduated when I was 22. So it was like 15 years, um, as a teacher and I didn't really get to share my, my story, my past and you know the brilliance of, of my people, and so that was always. I always was like, oh, I wish there was this course or I wish this person could share. You know, I always wished there was more. And Duncan and I started working together and our meetings were always we would be walking meetings to be outdoors, because that's where I am my best self and Duncan loves to be outdoors as well. So he's like, why don't we just have meetings outdoors? And I was like, yes, why not? And it was right.

Jenna Jasek: 16:44

After the 215 were found at Kamloops residential school and we were both just devastated. And we're out in our walking meeting and I'm always teaching, like sharing is. He's one person that always listens. I find other people don't ask or or they have opinions, but he was always like tell me more, tell me more. So I was always sharing different stories. And he's like I think more people want to hear about this, especially now. And he's like I think I think at that time there was the every um, every child matters day once a year and he's like we need this more, we need this all the time and um and um.

Jenna Jasek: 17:25

So he's like why don't we, like we'll take turns and share? I think it was each week like we just were like, okay, let's do this each week. We would kind of research and share something important about indigenous um perspectives and learning, and at that time there was nothing had been shared, so it was like murdered and missing, indigenous Peoples Day, the Indian Act, undrip, you know all those really important aspects that aren't really ever talked about, and so we've got to deep dive into so many different things and learn more and get better resources. Because we were new to it too and as an indigenous person, I like I didn't learn um growing up. I learned what everyone else learned, right, and my grandma didn't really talk about it, and so I always felt like a lost connection um to to my ancestors and um.

Jenna Jasek: 18:23

Our band wasn't really um sharing our knowledge and um, and not that we had it like um colonization, the residential schools that worked for our area, and so, um, there were bits and parts, and um, like his connect band, would invite us to events too, and so we did, um, we did learn some, but it was enough for me to know more than others, but not enough, not enough. And still, even to this day, after all the learning I've done, I'm still a lifelong learner and my perspective will change and grow and, um, I just want people to know that, like I'm not, I will never be an expert. I am, um, I'm a learner and a lover of learning, of learning, and this is my dream. My lifelong dream is to know and share, and just share, the brilliance of our people and our ancestors.

Chris Colley: 19:15

I do find that, like our schools want to create awareness, but oftentimes teachers are kind of nervous about how do I approach it in a respectful way, because I I want to make sure that I'm representing or or you know, they feel like they have this, this large responsibility.

Chris Colley: 19:41

And because of it, it prevents a lot of the talking because they just feel like it's not my place. But how do we get, how do we get teachers to like past, that of, and what are some of the things that they could start to do that that that would help with with making you know the truth aware, to just start there, like where the truth, what happened in the past, so that our kids know that, so that they can carry it on. And history is only as strong as the stories that we continue to tell. Exactly, what would your orientation be for teachers that are looking to incorporate more into their class and creating more awareness? Telling some of the stories, maybe, or reading the books of the stories that were told.

Chris Colley: 20:27

Can you shed a bit of light onto that, because I know a lot of teachers I talk to have that sense of they really want to do something, but beyond the land acknowledgements they're like I just don't have the authority. Nor do I want to misinterpret.

Jenna Jasek: 20:41

Exactly. No, I totally get that. What I've learned and where I feel most comfortable and safe with is just talking with the local Indigenous communities, checking in with them. You know, go on their website because a lot of the time they have all this amazing knowledge, they're sharing stuff right on there. That's a public site and they'll have an education person and a cultural person that you can talk with. They'll have resources or they will, or it will say like send you to somewhere and I'm so grateful. Many Indigenous communities are saying check out the outdoor learning school.

Jenna Jasek: 21:24

That just like fills my heart because, you know, we do make sure that everything that we have is vetted by Indigenous people, and more than one, from different communities, different areas, and so because we want to have, you know something that is that people think indigenous people think this is quality, this is exceptional and that's what we strive on. But you know, go with your local communities first and you know visibility creating relationships communities first and you know visibility creating relationships. So, um, anytime there's an event with indigenous people, show up and that's then you know, um, parents are gonna say and grandparents are like isn't that your teacher over there? And it's like, oh my gosh, my teacher's here. That builds, that starts, it's not, it's it's. It takes time and you know what that's. Everything takes time and we have to accept that and it's okay, you're doing every step, it's not going to. You can't just jump in and be like I'm going to do this. Now you create those relationships that are the most important and and they'll share what they have. Now, you know, some areas are we're working on healing ourselves and and our community members and learning about our own culture, and so we don't have much.

Jenna Jasek: 22:41

And that's when um, you look at um people in the same, you know there's nations and there's tribes and there's bands, communities. You start with your local. If there's no information there, then you kind of branch out and see what other communities from the same nation are. So I'm from I'm Sequetan, there's 17 fires, which means there's 17 bands, and we have the Sequetan Nation Tribal Council and it has a lot of information that's from all of us, and so you can kind of find a bigger place if you can't find the local things. And then there's also anything that's published by Indigenous people is out there. It's yours to use. But I would always check with the education person first, because sometimes you know someone goes rogue and and share some things that the community doesn't agree with. You've got to be careful about that. But those are my, my first recommendations.

Chris Colley: 23:45

Relationships yeah Well, I mean that's what I tell teachers, too, when they're working with their kids and other teachers like build that relationship, because that's what's going to guide you for the rest of of the year. Yeah, and it tends to to be all about that relationship building.

Jenna Jasek: 24:04

So it does, yeah, it is wise words it's important and it takes time, and that's okay. It just shows that you're you're putting in the effort, which is almost absolutely absolutely and kind of bring things to a close.

Chris Colley: 24:18

Jenna, thanks so much again for this. This has been super insightful and I hope we can talk again one day. I have so many questions like I keep these to 25 minutes, but I only get through maybe three questions, so there's more to to develop it's like my favorite topic, so I can talk for so much.

Jenna Jasek: 24:37

I love like these questions have been so great. It fills my heart that I get to share, so thank you. I love it, thank you.

Chris Colley: 24:44

What's coming up with the outdoor learning story that you might want to share with the listeners, that where they can go in and start that journey?

Jenna Jasek: 24:53

Oh my gosh, where they can go in and start that journey. Oh my gosh. Well, at the end of January, we're starting medicine of storytelling with, you know, my idols Robin well Kimmerer, monty Grace Smith, richard Van Camp, leona Prince, like it just, and there's more. Yeah, I mean, storytelling is really healing and that's where I started um healing was you know, um Lee Maracle. When I was a teenager, I was like, oh my gosh, there's someone that's Native, a woman, that's written books, and so you know, I, I started reading and those are the, you know, a connection of someone is like me and and more of these writers coming. They just healed me so much with their stories and and when we have our four seasons of learning Indigenous learning and our Indigenous academics and knowledge holders and elders share their stories. They're so beautiful and healing and and really you get to open like hear their story. I think that's really important. So that's that's coming up and I'm so excited.

Chris Colley: 26:10

I can't believe there's a course like this. I see like this is a dream come true.

Jenna Jasek: 26:13

And then the summer we have, like this is a dream come true, um. And then the summer we have, um a creative, like it's kind of more for teachers just to kind of work on you. Richard van cap is doing a creative writing workshop one day. And then, um our author about um nature, outdoors, like sketching he's doing a day. So there's like four of them coming up. Um, we have the outdoor learning conference in may, which very excited about, but I think it's sold out like really cool, like within the day I know it's so fast yeah, but get on the wait list yeah, well, that's cool.

Chris Colley: 26:49

It looks like an amazing experience that I saw some photos and stuff from the last couple years and, wow, just magical it is magical, it is.

Jenna Jasek: 26:58

I mean, first of all, you're in BAM which is gorgeous, you know. You're surrounded by nature, um, and then all these incredible teachers and educators sharing their knowledge and you get to be learning outdoors. That's just amazing, yeah that's awesome.

Chris Colley: 27:17

Well, I mean, it's an amazing place to start. So, listeners, if you're looking for a place to start, first of all, I love that look local, but also visit the outdoor learning store yes show school and story should say yeah, and they can email me too cool, I will put the link in our descriptor and I will put your page too, so that they know where to find you. Um, and please participate in some of these If you're looking to get beyond the land acknowledgement what a great place to start.

Chris Colley: 27:48

Um, it's so great. Well, I I really thank you again, jennifer, for this time, and I'm sharing some of your stories and your knowledge and wisdom passing that along and, like I said, I hope this is not our last conversation.

Jenna Jasek: 28:03

I hope not. It's been really lovely for me.

Chris Colley: 28:06

Cool, I appreciate that. Well, I wish you a great 2025 and all that comes. And I'm looking forward to going having a walk right now outside oh good, I'm just looking outdoors. It's cold and chilly, but it is so good to get out yeah, that fresh air cool, all right, well, take care.